2024-08-29 Force Field Release Meeting notes

 Date

Aug 29, 2024

 Participants

  1. @Lily Wang

  2. @Brent Westbrook

  3. Julia Rice

  4. @Michael Shirts

  5. Bill Swope

  6. @Chapin Cavender

  7. @David Mobley

  8. @Alexandra McIsaac

  9. @Michael Gilson

  10. @Jeffrey Wagner

  11. @Pavan Behara

 

Recording: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HTHStvnoRx_EVIh15aMX10yJmGsyLfDI/view?usp=sharing

 Discussion topics

Item

Presenter

Notes

Item

Presenter

Notes

NAGL update

LW

  • JR – Why size 3-6 for rings? What happens with rings of 7 or 8?

    • LW – That’s not included - There’s a separate feature for each ring size.

    • DM – Idea is that, once rings get big enough, it becomes irrelevant whether it’s in a ring or not.

    • LW – Earlier iterations included ring sizes up to 8, but we foundd that 7 and 8 weren’t important.

    • MG – And this uses electronegativity and hardness?

    • LW – Yes, and additionally initial partial charge guesses

  • (slide 6)

    • PB – How big of a difference is bad?

    • LW – Answered on next slide. Under 0.01 is probably negligible

    • DM – MOsato in my group sometimes finds that even small differences in charges can have big effects on properties.

  • (slide 8)

    • DM – …

      •  

    • PB – So is this still ELF10?

      • LW – Yes

      • PB – Is it possible that the ELF10 conf gen might include both diastereomers?

      • LW – OE should respect the stereochemistry, but I’m using an older version of the toolkit that may not respect this.

      • JW –

      • MS – Shape can also contribute to HFE a lot

      • LW – Wanted to quantify the scale of differences within OE ELF10 charges for different diastereomers.

      • CC – What’s the precision on these calcs? Eg, if you did diastereomer 1 twice, what’s the RMSE?

        • LW – I’d need to get back to you. Most have only been one replica.

      • PB – Do differences scale with molecule size?

        • LW – Would need to check. All of these are between 12 and 56 atoms.

      • DM – Is this result surprising?

        • LW – AGobbi has asked what the scale of these differences is at the leiden meeting.

        • DM – This might suggest two experiments. This has changes from charges and geometry. So what if you swapped charge sets, so diastereomer 2 conf would have diastereomer 1 charges. Right now you can’t tell which contributions to these values come from electrostatics OR shape, so this would let you measure effects from those.

        • LW – That’d be a good experiment to run.

    • (slide 9)

      • (General) – Enantiomers should have identical HFEs.

      • DM – I’d guess this is a sampling problem. And I don’t recommend going too much deeper on this.

      • MG – Could use additional torsion constraints to fix the carboxyl torsion so sampling converges faster.

      • LW – Could remove carboxylic acids to simplify the experiment.

      • DM – Worth considering.

      • MS – Would also be good to look at more enantiomer pairs to assess dataset quality or get some rough validation.

      • DM (chat) – You could restrain the carboxylic acid -OH to point one specific direction so it stays stuck in a consistent direction. At least that would be the easiest way to “fix” the sampling problem.

      • DM (chat) – Figure 4, this paper, has the PMF: https://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s10822-010-9343-7

    • JW – These are very interesting results - Raise questions about whether we were right to require stereochemistry in our infrastructure (since it’s really only used in charge assignment and conf gen)

  • (slide 14)

    • BS – Large negative values are ions?

      • LW – No, all neutral

      • BS – -300 seems large

      • LW – Some zwitterions

      • DM – Typical small mols are in the 2-14 for solv FE

      • (General) – But zwitterions can have much larger differences.

      • MS – How many GPU hours for these?

        • LW – 8-10 GPU-hours for the larger ones. Haven’t noticed a big dependence on number of waters.

      • JR – Where are you getting the charges from? Gas phase?

        • LW – All AM1BCC-like charges, using different toolkits. .

        • JR – So these won’t have the hydrogen wander off from zwitterions.

  • (slides 18-19) - See recording, ~43 mins

  • MS – We should make firmer plans to write everything up

  • MG – Looks like it’s performing well. Is there a plan for systematically finding more issues?

    • LW – Can keep exploring, depends on what people want to see. I’m mostly GPU-limited right now.

    • MG – Is there any way the model could emit some measure or trustworthiness?

    • LW – Could look into that

  • JR – Could compare dipole moments? Might be a validation test.

    • LW – We can do that, but my earlier work shows that dipole correlates very well with charge RMSE.

  • DM – I’m thinking this looks very good, and we probably don’t need more HFEs. We’ve shown pretty well that this is better than our open-source alternative

    • LW – Right, my hope is to finish these up, present to board, and see if we can release fully.

    • JW – Agree

  • JR – How well do you think you’re doing with hypervalent S and P? How many are in the training set?

    • LW – Quite a few in training set. One issue is that AM1BCC doesn’t do well on hypervalent S and P to begin with. So I think we’re doing poorly as a whole, but we’re no worse than the alternatives.

  • PB – Right now we have the openff-nagl and openff-nagl-models repos. Do you think making a monorepo is a good idea? Or is there a reason to keep them separate?

    • LW – Good question. I’ve kept them separate for similar reasons to the distinction between openff-toolkit and openff-forcefields. For example for making a NEW network, you don’t need the models repo, and the models are about 10MB a piece, so that could add up after a while.

    • JW – Also can get confusing when code and models live togeteher, and a release of a new model implies a change to the code, though none is present.

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Updates on alkanes

MS

  • Diffusion constants for alkanes are somewhat slower than experiment, with slowness increasing with alkane length. Supports the idea that we should re-optimize for alkane parameters

  • Going to look for more data from NIST, heats of mixing etc

  •  

Ions and lipids

MS

  • LW, we should sync up on this and water model refitting, 1-on-1.

  • LW will reach out

    • MS + Barbara

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Action items

 Decisions